Thursday, August 14, 2008
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Featured Comments: Tithing
All lot of commenters brought up the issue of tithing on Mr. Pine's "God Will Provide" post, since he placed it as the number one priority in a Christian budget. While there were a variety of opinions about what and how much to tithe, some people asked the question of whether or not monetary tithing is even Biblical.agnophilo quoted Malachi 3:10, which was provided for by pickwick12 when he asked her for scriptural references to tithing:
"Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it."
I ask again, where does the Bible say to give money to your church?
shedinator provided some input into why he tithes:
The assumption is that the church will then use your tithe to maintain its basic needs, and then use the remainder to support those in need. The needy are far more likely to approach a church about their needs than they are to come knocking on my door.
And be_a_revolution commented saying that she does not necessarily tithe money:
I learned a long time ago that it wasn't about giving money to a church. In fact, in the last year, I've probably only given money to a church maybe 5 times. My giving has been of my resources and time.
How does your church handle tithing - and do you agree with it? Do you think it is important to tithe money, specifically?
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Comments (50)
I believe it is essential to tithe. I have heard many arguements as to the amount to tithe and do we tithe on the gross or net salary. I think how much a person tithes is a matter between God and the person. But I do believe that we, as Christians, should tithe. I personally believe in the 10% amount, but that is just me.
I think it is important to tithe money because money has a strong pull in our culture as a source of power and idolatry. Really, we should be giving God the first of everything He blesses us with--including time and such. But yes, I believe tithing from your money is an important habit. It reminds your flesh "money is not in control, God is in control".
Deuteronomy 8 was what convicted me in this area.
~V
I tithe, give off gross pay, and I start at 10% and go up from there.
The greatest Scripture on tithing is found in John 3:16 "For God so loved the world He gave..." God gave all He had of value to give, His Son. For what could God possibly have or create that could have greater worth than His Son?
"Now about the collection for God's people: Do what I told the Galatian churches to do. 2On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with his income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made. 3Then, when I arrive, I will give letters of introduction to the men you approve and send them with your gift to Jerusalem."
I hope I'm not taking this out of context, but I think it is biblical to tithe. It's an act of trust and it is essential to keep the church running. I've never thought about substituting money for non-monetary tithes, but I don't know why you shouldn't tithe money. Even that poor woman in the New Testament gave a large portion of her wages to the church, so I don't think we have an excuse.
God gave us EVERYTHING we have. He only asks of 10%. That means 10% of our money. Sure we have "things" but how would we have them if it weren't for the money or job God has given us. 10% is nothing compared to what He has given. Our talents are something totally different!
@Hecalmsthestorm@xanga - My grandpa has been a pastor for nearly 40 years and he's not so sure about tithing on net or gross either but he does say, "It makes a difference on whether you want a net or gross blessing." Doesn't answer the question, but it always makes me smile!
@NavajoPrincess27@xanga - I heard the same thing. The person said, "Do you want to be blessed on the net or the gross"!
I think tithing is wrong, because that money should to towards helping the poor. Church can be held in someone's basement, I don't care, but collection should go towards people who really need it, period.
Everyone seems to think that tithing is giving to God. But God and the church are not the same thing!
the tithe isn't about what the church does with the money... that's not what God aims at... although He uses it...
tithing is about the condition of the heart of the person tithing... is the person obeying or is the person grumbling and then nickel and diming the collection plate...
it's about the heart condition not the amount of money or what the church does w/ the money... the responsibility isn't on the church, God holds the person responsibile...
and actually.... the tithe of an OT Hebrew wasn't the 10% we all try to even skim out of... the 10% is the base line, it's the foundation... a Hebrew would tithe 20-25% earned... that's unheard of in today's American Christian church today...
and in fact the NT doesn's say anything about tithing itself....
the NT is more about giving cheerfully, abundantly, and sacrificially.... which in essence is another anathema to our materialistic Christian Prosperity gospel saturated culture....
@NavajoPrincess27@xanga and @Hecalmsthestorm@xanga - so you get extra blessed the more money you give to your church?
The very idea is sickening.
@la_faerie_joyeuse@xanga - It is not about the money. Christians are commanded to "Do" for others. Tithing is just part of the whole. Don't focus on just the money aspect of it. We were discussing money because the subject of the post is tithing.
@Hecalmsthestorm@xanga - I'm very much in favor of helping others with time, donations, or even money.
But I don't trust a church, which ALWAYS has other interests, to put my (or your) money to the best possible use in serving those in need.
The thought of me giving money to a church, simply so it can build a bigger, fancier church or use it for various other building projects is sickening, as is how many televangelists use the money they receive from millions of people. If I'm giving money away, I'm want to make sure as well as I can it will be helping people. Non-profits and charities that actually use most of the money where it should, on the ones that need it, is where my money goes.
Just to add-
The televangelist idea of "planting your seed" is revolting. Since when did God start selling lottery tickets? The more you give, the greater chance you'll be amply rewarded!!!!
I'm not going to even broach the topic of giving money in attempt to receive healing from God. I'm afraid I would barf on my keyboard if I had to continue.
first of all i don't believe that tithing means giving to the church necessarily. tithing is about giving your money back to God so that he can use it to bless other people. you can tithe directly to people, to a church, or any organization that God leads you to.
as for scripturally i dont know. but i do know what i have experienced and i do know that tithing does bless me just by doing it.
there's a verse that ay God like it when we take delight in offering him the best of our crops. 10% of watever i make goes to Him immediately and my time and other skills, I try to devote to him everyday.
Tithing is not commanded or requested for a Christian in the New Testament. It is, of course, repeatedly mentioned as a component of the Mosaic Covenant (Old Testament).
But your question is about giving money to YOUR Church. Nope, not mentioned. Paul does ask for offerings for believers in other cities (a "Church" you don't attend) who are enduring persecution or famine.
Giving to the Church you attend on any given Sunday is essential if you want to keep attending it. Rent and utilities cost and those who enjoy the facilities should share the costs. But to be clear, those "donations" pay for your own worship and comfort. I'll leave it to you to discern between this and your gym membership.
But before you go all nuts with inner conflict, remember this: The role of the Blessed should always be to distribute blessing on others. If you have money (and you do) the question isn't "should I give?", the question is "who has God put before me to help?"
There is an ocean of need and you can help.
Though tithing an exact 10% is not required in the New Testament as rigourously as it was in the Old Testament, we still are required to support the Church and the priests with our monetary gifts. As the Scriptures say:
Who serveth as a soldier at any time, at his own charges? Who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? Who feedeth the flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock? Speak I these things according to man? Or doth not the law also say these things? For it is written in the law of Moses: Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen? Or doth he say this indeed for our sakes? For these things are written for our sakes: that he that plougheth, should plough in hope; and he that thrasheth, in hope to receive fruit. If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great matter if we reap your carnal things? If others be partakers of this power over you, why not we rather? Nevertheless, we have not used this power: but we bear all things, lest we should give any hindrance to the gospel of Christ.
Obviously, St. Paul expected to be paid in some portion for his clerical duties to the various churches to which he ministered. And whilst the ten per cent associated with a "tithe" is not specifically mentioned, many have considered it to be the standard Christian tithe for a long time.
@la_faerie_joyeuse@xanga - Priests and bishops have to get paid in order to eat, live, and survive. Tithes cover that. Tithes cover the chapels, the sanctuaries, the vestments, the sacred vessels and all the things that make a church what it is.
And yes, a lot of the money also goes to the poor. That's why most churches have budgets - so that you can see what your money is going to. In fact, most churches have relatively large ministries set up to help poor people and those in need of the things that most take for granted.
Priests are in the business of saving souls, and they do it as a full-time job. Giving your tithe to the Church is indeed giving it to God, as the clergy are in the service of God. People that try to separate the Church from God as if they are somehow diametrically opposed miss the greatest attribute of the Church: it is the mystical body of Christ, and, as St. Cyprian said, he who does not have the Church for his Mother cannot have God for his Father.
Tithing can be of your time, energy, or money...if you're dirt poor, are you a sinner because you can not give monetarily?
@la_faerie_joyeuse@xanga - I completely understand. I, too, am in favor of directly helping others. That is the best way we can show love for one another. About the church, I understand that too. Churches are made up of people. People are sinners, Christian or not. People are prideful. That is not a good mix sometimes. But in the end the only thing that matters to God is what did each of us do for Him by helping others. Remember Jesus said the old woman who gave only two coins gave more than anyone. He said that because He knew her heart and he knew the spirit in which she gave. And she gave all she had.
I think it's funny that we are all so concerned about how other people's money will be used and how it could be better served by doing something else with it. I would ask those who think it's wrong to tithe, how much of your money goes to helping the poor? I doubt it's 10%. If I'm wrong in your case, good for you. I commend you in literally putting your money where your mouth is.
People look at giving to the church as a concept rather than as a practice and sit back and say it's good or it's wrong. But the fact of the matter is... no debate is going to change the heart at its core.
Giving in all its forms is rarely just about the act itself. It's more about the heart of the giver. I think it's entirely possible that you can give 90% of everything you own to wherever you think is right but still have it be worthless. Don't lose the value of the giving in the seemingly pragmatic debate of where it goes.
It's easy to scoff at a practice from the outside if you don't know the heart of the giver. When we give a gift to our mom out of love, does anyone care what it is, how much it cost, or whether it's right or not to do so? Or even for that matter that our mothers are the direct recipients of the gift (i.e. a gift in her name to a charity)?
What if... what if... people are SO grateful for the change in their lives and hope that they now have, it comes pouring out in giving (gasp, tithing!)? Do you discount their motives? Do you count their experience any less valid?
Money is not what's important. It almost never is. Money is simply a tool... a means. Where it goes tell us all what we actually value.
@Nathon@xanga - well said!!
I've noticed that when I tithe regularly things happen and I'm always secure financially. I am in between jobs at this point in time, but God was able to pay my rent, utilites and all my major bills. He has been good to me. It doesn't say give to the church exactly...but it does say give to God what is His and how else would you give to God if it wasn't through your the house of God?
For me, the main reason I give is to worship God and to have joy in doing so. It's cliched but true when people say "it's a matter of the heart". You could give all your money away, yet do so reluctantly and your worship would be dead. Or you could give nothing, but if you give nothing than it is more of a question of "where does your heart lie: In God or the world?". Another reason to give which is a little more obvious is to keep the church going. Also, I know a lot of the money from my church goes to youth programs, missions trips and food programs.
One question though, where did this idea that you should give 10% come from? Do you give out of either worship or reluctance when you put this barrier on giving? If you don't want to give to the church, but give 10% anyway, is that glorifying to God?
the way i view tithing is that the money we have isn't ours to begin with. we must give God what is His. Although many people feel that skimping on tithing is a way to to save money, it is not the case. When we give God what is His, we will be taken care of. I feel that in the book Blue Like Jazz by Donald Miller has a perfect example in the book abouth tithing. i forgot what chapter, but it is in there.