Friday, October 10, 2008
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When a Congregation Refuses to Participate in Worship?
by mr willow
Can you all help me with this, what about when the congregation doesn't stand up or even participate in the worship, and the pastor has instructed us not to tell the people to get up and participate because they don't like being told what to do. What do you do in this situation??
--Steven
And just when I thought I'd heard it all.
It’s one thing when people aren’t comfortable with certain worship expressions such as raising hands, dancing, or (horrors!) speaking in tongues. But in a church where people don’t even engage in worship by standing up, I’m guessing the problem goes beyond just a matter of style, taste, or tradition.
My suspicion is that the issues in this particular congregation run much deeper than music. There’s a big warning flag in “they don’t like being told what to do”—Sure, don’t boss anyone around, but what’s so dreadfully authoritarian about “Let’s all stand together and sing ‘How Great Thou Art’”? What specifically is wrong, though, I wouldn’t presume to guess on so little information.
The problem with the first (and best) bit of advice I have to offer is that it’s too often used as a pious platitude, the kind of cliché people use when they don’t know what to say but want to sound spiritual. Once you examine what the Bible says on the subject, that attitude toward it seems ludicrous: as though a military officer said, “There’s nothing more we can do to defend ourselves; we just have to sit back, hope, and launch a full air strike on all the enemy bases.” A full-blown air strike is not “nothing,” so it’s absurd to treat it that way.
As you might have guessed, I’m talking about prayer. Here’s something that the great evangelist R. A. Torrey had to say on the subject:
It is the privilege of every child of God to have the power of God in his service. And the verse just quoted [Isaiah 40:31] tells us how to obtain it, and that is by "waiting upon the Lord." Sometimes you will hear people stand up in a meeting, not so frequently perhaps in these days as in former days, and say: "I am trying to serve God in my poor, weak way." Well, if you are trying to serve God in your poor, weak way, quit it; your duty is to serve God in His strong, triumphant way. But you say, "I have no natural ability." Then get supernatural ability.
(That comes from a classic sermon entitled “The Power of Prayer,” which I highly recommend to anyone interested in the subject.)
The Scriptural promises about the results of prayer are both inspiring and challenging. Here are just a few of the more well-known ones:
"So I [Jesus] say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened…. If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!" (Luke 11:9-10, 13)
“…You do not have because you do not ask.” (James 4:2)
“…The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much. Elijah was a man with a nature like ours, and he prayed earnestly that it would not rain; and it did not rain on the land for three years and six months. And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth produced its fruit.” (James 5:16b-18)
Even if you’re familiar with those verses already, give them a long hard look. They say in terms as clear as possible that God gives to those who ask. Period. It’s not that we have a magical formula; it’s that we have a generous Father. (And a wise one, who doesn’t give things that would hurt us. But that’s another discussion.)
What you are describing is (it seems to me) primarily a spiritual problem. Therefore a spiritual solution is going to have the most practical effect on it. It’s quite likely that God has shown you this problem specifically so you could pray for it. Forget standing: You need to get down on your knees and intercede before God for this congregation. Pray for their hearts to be softened, their eyes to be opened, their spirits to be quickened. (It’s entirely possible you might even need to pray for their salvation: regenerate people usually have a healthy interest in worshiping God.)
Remember, this is not a brief opening prayer before you get down to the “real work” of ministry—this is the real work of ministry. Take some time with it: at least an hour or two of concerted, focused intercession for these people. Invite some friends to join you, if they have the same burden for it that you do.
Once you’ve done this, by which I mean once you’ve made a serious and significant effort toward it, it will probably be clearer to you what your next steps should be. Be open to God’s leading. If I were in your place—which of course I’m not, so take it for what it’s worth—I’d say these people are in need of some solid Biblical teaching on the subject of worship. Maybe they were simply never taught that it’s their right and privilege as believers to join in God’s heavenly chorus of worshipers. I’d volunteer to start a Bible study group, or a Sunday school class (depending on your circumstances and position of course). Maybe go through the Psalms, or examine New Testament scriptures such as Ephesians 5:19, Colossians 3:16, and 1 Corinthians 14:21. Or look at some of the words of the great hymns of the faith. If done rightly, this could be a very encouraging and edifying experience for everyone involved.
Remember the goal should not be just to get them to stand up and sing—it should be for them to see their position of honor as invited participants in the worship of our great God. Try this and let me know how it turns out!
Have you ever had a problem with the way your church handles worship? How did, or how would, you approach that situation?
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Comments (85)
Well, quite a few old people take a long time to get up or sit down, so I can understand if they aren't expected to rise and sit frequently.
I'm not really sure what the objection is in the blurb you mentioned, though. People go to church to hear a trained minister lay out what he or she thinks is good behavior. Essentially, they go for the express purpose of being told what to do.
For the worship thing, I would do the suggestion method... if they don't like being TOLD what to do then perhaps you can suggest to them, like... "Feel free to stand as we worship the Lord.." or something like that... didn't get a chance to read the whole post... sorry gotta run.
Just because someone sits quietly during the 'worship' portion of the service (I'm assuming that you're talking about the music; can you tell that I get annoyed when people act like worship = music?
) DOES NOT mean that they are not participating.
Perhaps the congregation is being asked to stand for too long. In our last church, the songs were sung in one block during the service and we were expected to stand for all of them. The list of songs got longer and longer, sometimes nine or ten, usually all verses or repeated two or three times, and just when you thought it was finally finished and you could sit down, the worship leader would say, "Let's do that last one again acapella." The elderly folks couldn't stand for that long. When I began to have problems with my feet, I couldn't stand for that long. Young children got fidgety and parents sat down to take care of them. It's hard to feel worshipful when the kids around you are acting up and you've been standing and singing until your voice is giving out and your feet hurt.
This is so enlightening...I had no idea that 'worship' and 'music' were synonyms. Whew! I'm so glad to know that 'worshipping God' simply means that I sing a few songs to Him. Makes my life much easier!
/sarcasm
Well I'm not quite sure where this notion that you have to stand up to worship even comes from. The church I grew up in sat for singing, stood for praying. The church I went to in college stood for singing, knelt for praying and spent a great deal of time prostrated face down too. The church I attend now actually lets people do as they please, as they feel called and led to by God. Some sit, some stand, some are prostrated before the Lord. I am on the worship team and we see about everything, from those that sit and appear to not even be participating to those dancing in the back. Despite their position when you talk with individuals you will find that those that seek the Lord find the Lord no matter what their posture. Perhaps one needs to realize that worship is not about position but about a heart relationship with God. I have had some of the MOST worshipful experiences in my life just sitting and listening. To an observer it might appear that I am not participating but the opposite is true, in my heart and in my relationship with Christ I am in deep worship. My participation in the ceremony of lean to the left, lean to the right, stand up sit down.... (fight fight fight) is not an indication of my relationship with Christ. As to the notion that people don't like being told what to do..... maybe it would be better to let the Holy Spirit do the leading and the convicting and not put your own expectations on the congregation. I would suggest that a teaching on what worship really is. It is not posture and not following a worship leader's directions or a pastor's desire. It is relationship with Christ. Teaching people the freedom of worship in their daily lives might just open them up to worship in church.
This is an interesting entry, and honestly, I used to feel the same way. I though to myself, 'how can these people refuse to worship with us?' but I was very elitist at that time, having been taught that way and grown up in a Pentecostal, but very traditional church. But I--and I will presume that others were the same--was doing the standing and hand raising and various other 'worship' actions for the benefit of others and certainly not in the true 'heart of worship.' I have had chronic pain problems for many years, and I felt very pleased with myself for pushing down the flesh and all that. I realize now that all that was nothing but looking good for the other Christians. I know not everyone is like that; however, I know that a lot of people in my former church were overly concerned about what others thought about their actions in church.
The thing is, people 'worship' in their own way. Some people naturally want to praise with dancing and singing, but that's not what worship requires. I am never a loud person, and I am rarely animated about anything. Worship is supposed to be a heart issue and doesn't require standing or even singing. Once I realized that, I didn't even sing the songs for months to devote that time to worshiping with my heart. And if I don't feel like standing, I don't. Like others have posted, standing doesn't automatically mean participating or worshiping; and not standing doesn't mean not participating and certainly doesn't preclude the act of worship. I'm not aware of a biblical command to stand while worshiping. Dancing is mentioned, and perhaps we should be kneeling in humility, but standing...?
Humans like to feel that they are doing the right thing and that others are wrong if not doing exactly the same thing. We want to think that we are part of the group that has all the right answers and God has given us divine knowledge that others aren't aware of. Before you argue... that is the basis behind denominations and many other non-biblical teachings. Every denomination thinks that others are deceived and mistaken. Again, I grew up in a charismatic church that looked upon other denomination with something close to scorn because they weren't "moving with the Spirit" and refused to do things like speak in tongues (which I have since changed my views on *gasp*) it never even crossed my mind that I might be wrong.
You can do what you feel God is telling you, but in a great many number of cases, you cannot assume that your answer is the only right one (certainly there are some exceptions, I'm not talking about disputing the foundation of Christianity, because it ceases to be Christianity at that point.) In the end, it comes down to judging others. We all do it, but we should be careful "they should stand during worship" isn't an indicator of a deeper problem of judging others unfairly.
@no_more_grace@xanga - Not that you don't have a point, but I figured a question about standing had more to do with the singing than (say) the sermon.
I can definitely understand some peoples' comments on elderly people not standing for an extended amount of time, or at all for that matter. I give them a free pass to do whatever because they've lived more than 3x my age, and they've earned it. But it sounds like the problem here is theunity of the church. I agree, that you can participate in worship (not just during the music part, but at all times) without doing what everyone else is saying. But the problem is unity...and it sounds like this congregation is unified in defying the pastor/music leader. That's a big question of the heart then.
I have a problem with canned music worship. I have a music director who consistently tells us to raise our hands simply because the song says to. I'm sorry...but if I'm going to raise my hands during a song it's because I feel moved in the Spirit to...not because someone tells me. But, standing is different. It's an act of unifying the congregation. We are a family and so we stand to sing (maybe a few songs) together. We show honor to God by coming to attention...standing removes a certain amount of distractions from us as we sing together, unified.
There's a heart issue here, and I think Mr. Willow is right in saying that some prayer for salvation might be in order as well. If a congregation is willing to defy a pastor on something as simple as standing during a worship song, then there's something else that they are defying him on, in their hearts. This pastor needs to lead the congregation in a spiritual cleansing and healing series. This church is also failing the commission by this outright act of disunity. What image is being sent to any non-believer who might walk through those doors? The image is that "I can do whatever I want and still be called a Christian...it's ok."
I hate to use this analogy, but it's the only I've got that seems to fit. When a child has no problem with rebellion, you might ask the child to eat his vegetables. The kid might finish two bites of them and say they're done. You might let the kid off the hook, or just ask them to eat two more bites, or whatever. You pick your battles wisely, depending on the character of the child. If a child has a rebellious spirit, however, and you've been struggling together with it all day, and you ask the child to eat his vegetables...he refuses and you make him sit at the table for the rest of the night until he finishes his veggies, separated from the rest of the family. Why? Not because you think he needs each and every one of those lima beans in his little body, but because he needs to know that he will respect you and fall in line with the rest of the family, or there will be consequences - he will miss out on the joy of being with the family. Now, in Christianity, we cannot dish out the consequences, that's God's job, but we must point out when we see a root of bitterness coming into the church. That kind of growth destroys a church and makes in ineffective. Thanks for the post...I think it's very good. :) If you can't tell...heh :)
There are times that I definitely sit during worship...times when I dont stand as yet because I am not ready. It may have been a crazy morning...a crazy week...and I need to sit amongst the other worshippers...taking in the milieu....talking to the Lord in the meantime...until I do feel ready. I sit not out of defiance...but because when I stand...I want it to be genuine and full...not as if that isnt possible when ur sitting as well...but I do agree there is something to standing in the presence of God...but nothing to get upset about when people don't...you don't know their reasons, their story...let the holy spirit speak to their hearts...
Why would you put "horrors!" when referring to "speaking in tongues.? Speaking in tongues is biblical (see the Book of Acts, where the first church was established), and unless you want to throw it all out the window, you have to accept that!!! As one who speaks in tongues I find your reference offensive.
because people are lazy, duh
I never really saw people sitting during worship as a horrible thing. Firstly, there is nothing scriptural about standing during worship. As far as I know, all the instances in which specific positions were pointed out in the Bible, it was face down on the ground, kneeling, hands outstretched, but not standing. It seems that if something is important enough for church leaders to feel that it should be enforced, that it should be biblically based...
@xapatotheworld - Excellent comment by the way.. However, I have a question. It seemed that one of your main issues with this was that the church as not 'unified'. Am I correct in this? If this is indeed the case, I have a question as well. Which is more important? To have a physically unified church (e.g. everyone standing during worship) or to have unified hearts?
I dunno.
I also want to add that I think this post makes a lot of assumptions about what worship is or what a true worshipful posture is... It's entirely possible to be sitting and be totally engaged in worship. Sometimes it's better for me, actually. As a young Christian I went through a struggle where I would like to stand up in worship and I would try really hard to "look spiritual" so that if people looked at me they would think I was a great Christian. That was a pride struggle for me, and though by the definition of this article I'd be worshiping correctly, by God's standards I was seeking myself and not him. When I find myself struggling with that again, I do MUCH better if I sit and worship. If I sit, the temptation of having people look at me is removed. If I'm sitting they can't see me, and then I'm free to give my full attention to God and not worry about the people around me, because they are all standing. It gives me a much more private and personal experience with God, and it leads to more genuine worship. I don't always sit because this is not a constant temptation, just one that creeps up from time to time, but it's an example in my life where I know sitting during worship is more in tune with God than standing.
Remember that true worshippers worship in "spirit and in truth" and don't stand on the street trying to look pious like the Pharisees. It's God that judges the heart, and this post smacks of judging Christians based on outward appearances.
I probably shouldn't even be commenting but I don't stand up unless it looks like I'm making people uncomfortable because I'm not up.
I just don't understand what the entire point is of standing up and sitting back down. Yes, it provides some time to "stretch" but ... is there really a point of standing up to "worship" as you call it.
Then again, I eventually became what the other people called as a non-believer--and yeah, I eventually decided that participating in an organized religion really wasn't my kind of thing, I don't believe in faith and most certainly will not allow fate to control me.
To be honest, this is a little bit of a tender subject for me.
I've often been glared at because there are times that I don't stand during worship.
But it's quiet often painful for me- I was in a car wreck about 2 years ago, and it crushed the joint in my heel. By just looking at me, I look like a healthy 23 year old woman. I don't walk with much of a limp (except when I'm tired) but standing for long periods of time can sometimes kill me- and depending on the day, sometimes standing for five minutes hurts like the devil.
So basically, don't judge someone just because they don't stand- they may have a good reason for it.
Who cares if people stand or sit?!
PRAYER INDEED!
I def. see where you're coming from not wanting to tell people what to do..
We have a college night at my church, and one night in the middle of a powerful worship service our youth pastor starts demanding everyone to stand up, he didn't give us a choice. At the time he said this, I was sitting down in deep prayer, crying out to God because I was in the middle of a depression, and I was having a really powerful time with God. His insisting us to stand broke that, and after I was standing, I felt like the presence of God had just left the building.
From this perspective, I know it's possible to worship sitting, and sometimes telling someone what to do can interrupt what God's doing.
But I also see the other side, as yes, if someone is just sitting there TRYING to go against the norm, then there is a spirit of rebellion there...and I've been there too, where I refused to do anything that was "normal" because I thought I was above that.
The message we should teach is to be respectful to God...no matter what your posture is. If you're sitting, you should still be worshiping or praying, don't just sit there with a bad attitude.
The college night is more casual where people are more free, so it is more acceptable to walk around, lay on the floor, dance, etc. but in a formal church service I think it is respectful to stand, and I say why come to church if you're not going to seek God?
@hubbaduh@xanga - Just because someone sits quietly during the
'worship' portion of the service (I'm assuming that you're talking
about the music; can you tell that I get annoyed when people act like
worship = music? ) DOES NOT mean that they are not participating.
I agree. And just because someone is standing and lifting their hands does not make them holier. I can't tell you how many people I've seen and known, that on the outward appearance seemed to be worshipping God, but then during the rest of the week, live their lives it bondage to sin.
Listen to what Jesus said in Matthew 15:8-9.
"This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. But in vain do they worship me!"
honestly, I don't like to stand cause I'm too darn lazy.
hmm this post get me bit in a bad mood... why should the be distraction in worshipping GOd? and i'm sure they can praise God by sitting and not evern saying a word, the same way some other people do by screaming, raising their hands, crying, hitting the floor... but you broughts some good points... i was actually glad by the end of the post... ^^
i have a new favorate quote... becu i say this all the time, but now with a second part...
"i have no natural ability so i will ask for supernatural ability"
Dear Steven,
While I certainly agree with the honor it is to worship a mighty God, the God of all creation the Lord of heaven and earth....
I don't know that we need to stand up to do it, any more than we need to dance around naked like David.... unless it is a TRUE expression of our hearts and minds towards God.
If worship is an expression of our inner man our Spirit man to God, then sometimes that may not have anything to do with our physical bodies, and sometimes it might.
We need to be very careful not to start judging people by outward 'worship' appearances.
Standing up with arms raised to the roof singing at the top of your lungs does not necessarily = worship, if your heart and your mind are not on the things of God.
Romans 12 tells us to;
1Therefore, I urge you,
[a]brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living
sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God—this is your spiritual
act of worship. 2Do
not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed
by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve
what God's will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.
This is an everyday occurrence.... in the very way we live our lives, not how we stand to sing on Sundays.
Mr Willow
.... love love love the call to intercede!!!
x
@reflectionphoto@xanga - I am glad that you spoke up, because I suffer from fibromyalgia and also can't do things like standing on bad days, and I most of the time can't clap...it hurts like I have pins on my hands! Many people wonder if I am not enjoined in the corporate worship, or even enjoying a show - when I am!
@musterion99@xanga - Your point is also the best point. Why should anyone else care about my worship style? I am worshiping God, and he knows what 's what. Focus on your own worship, and let the Holy Spirit work on the other guys (wink).
I think it is ridiculous to judge a person's heart of worship by how much display they are showing everyone around them. There's a pretty big chance that the ones bouncing around jumping up and down, having an emotional, not spiritual experience, are probably doing it for show. I cannot judge anyone by their extreme or humble "worship" style. I just know this...
Worship...
In a concert, where people are worshipping the band or performer, there are so many types of fans, showing their extreme love, or admiration for the band. Some are flashing their naked torsos to show the band their "goods", some are crying, some are screaming, some are jumping up and down, some are singing with the performer, some are just barely standing, with their eyes closed, soaking in the moment as deep in their hearts as they can, some are sitting watching the spectacle of it all...
I would think that worship of God would be that and all the more, although we do not actually see God, and the performers of "worship" in a typical church setting are generally below the standard of "pleasing to the ears".
In no way does worship mean having the biggest flag, best dance routine, or even... standing. These minor "do's and don't's" that the church culture has created recently is just that, a cultural thing, and silly little thing that gets in the way of relationship and turns into religion. Sometimes you show it by getting naked (like David), jumping up and down, sometimes by crying on your face, and sometimes by sitting, and soaking it all in.
Perhaps that person is listening to the Holy Spirit speak life into their broken heart, or perhaps they are being stubborn and don't want to participate, which would make me wonder why they were there... it could be they were spiritually bullied there, or feel guilt, and do not understand the love of the very Christ they see everyone around them jumping up and down shouting in tongues for.
Dictionary.com defines worship as: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/worship